In this episode of the Fictionphile Podcast, the crew analyzes why Star Wars: Return of the Jedi is a work of art. Topics include the perfect ending to a trilogy, whether the Ewoks are necessary, and exploring what the Emperor does with his waste.
For those experiencing hearing loss, and simply for your reference regardless, see the transcription below.
Star Wars: Return of the Jedi – Podcast Episode #6
Jason Boyd 0:21
Hello, everybody, welcome to the Fictionphile podcast where we explore the wide world of narrative entertainment, from movies to literature and everything in between. My name is Jason Boyd. I’m the editor of Fictionphile and I’m joined remotely today by managing editor Corrine Asbell. Hey, Corrine.
Corrine Asbell 0:38
Jason Boyd 0:39
Also somewhere in cyberspace we have associate editor Dalton McCay. Good day to you, Dalton.
Dalton McCay 0:45
Greetings, my friend.
Jason Boyd 0:48
Nice, cool cool. I hope y’all are doing well today. Today we’re going to be pouring over a single work of fiction. After we introduce this work of art we’ll discuss what makes it enjoyable; what makes it a work of art in the first place; what makes it universally relatable; and, finally, we’ll talk about what it could have done better. So now that we have our format, what piece of narrative entertainment are we talking about today, Corrine?
Show Topic Introduction
Corrine Asbell 1:15
We’re going to be discussing the conclusion of the original Star Wars trilogy, episode six Return of the Jedi, which was released on May 25, 1983. The film was distributed by 20th Century Fox and produced by Lucasfilm. Return of the Jedi saw Lawrence Kasdan returning to write the screenplay, this time with the help of George Lucas himself. The movie was directed by Richard Marquand and of course stars Mark Hamill, and Carrie Fisher, Harrison Ford, and also Ian McDiarmid, Alec Guinness and Warrick Davis.
Dalton McCay 1:47
Luke Skywalker battles horrible Jabba the Hutt and cruel Darth Vader to save his comrades in the Rebel Alliance and triumph over the Galactic Empire. Han solo and Princess Leia, reaffirm their love and team up with Chewbacca, Lando Calrissian, C-3PO, R2D2and the tribal Ewoks to aid the disruption of the dark side and defeat the evil Emperor.
Jason Boyd 2:15
Yes, I remember it well. Very good, very good. Okay, so, critical opinion of this movie. Let’s go over that real quick. So now these sub- these scores are subject to change of course, because these are just from when I pulled them. And on IMDB right now Return of the Jedi is at 8.3 out of 10. Metacritic has it at 58 Metascore. That’s a little low. Metacritic is pretty brutal, yet still 58 first original trilogy, but Rotten Tomatoes has it 82% for the critics, audiences 94 so quite a bit of disparity there, so maybe it’s just Star Wars fandom bringing it up on the audience side.
Dalton McCay 3:06
Jason Boyd 3:08
But yeah, yeah, perhaps. But uh, let’s, let’s move on to our topics here. Let’s go ahead and dive into what makes Star Wars Return of the Jedi, enjoyable. Corrine, why don’t you start us off?
What Makes Star Wars: Return of the Jedi Enjoyable?
Corrine Asbell 3:21
Well, for me it’s really seeing Luke finally come into his own. I mean, if you look at where we last left off in Empire Strikes Back, he’d had a really terrible, horrible, no good, very bad day. He just found out that his dad was alive and a Sith Lord, he lost a hand, his best friend got taken, and he had to leave his Jedi camp early to try and bail everyone out, and his teacher said he was going to fail. Obviously, I’m being a little bit facetious, but things were not looking up for our hero. But when we see Luke walk into Jabba’s palace, dressed in black, all swagger and as suave as Luke ever could be, you can see the difference immediately. He’s learned from his mistakes, he’s a Jedi now in his own right, poised and ready to right wrongs and save his friends. And then when he gets dropped into the Rancor’s pit, we see those new skills put to use. Honestly, the entire Tatooine scene is really enjoyable. But I just I feel like this really proud moment when I see our little Luke all growed up. It just really gets me. Right in the feels.
Jason Boyd 4:24
Right. Yeah, he’s uh, he’s kind of almost like sexy in this one isn’t he?
Dalton McCay 4:28
A little bit.
Jason Boyd 4:28
When he first shows up, it’s like ooh he’s all sexy.
Corrine Asbell 4:34
As he could ever be, I guess.
Jason Boyd 4:37
What’s what’s strange too, is that he’s wearing all black. And it’s the first time he’s returned to Tatooine. So clearly, he’s forgotten that Tatooine is hot.
Corrine Asbell 4:49
He’s trying to make a statement and he’s got those Force powers he can just cool himself down with the Force.
Jason Boyd 4:54
Dalton McCay 4:55
There you go.
Jason Boyd 4:55
Of course thematically you know, he’s an all white at the beginning and then he’s in all black at the end. So I mean it kind of it almost seems like he’s going to the dark side which a lot of people talk about like, does he go toward the dark side in this one but he’s definitely darker in color anyway. So let’s let’s see good points Corrine and Dalton let’s move on to you. What do you think makes Star Wars Return the Jedi enjoyable?
Dalton McCay 5:22
Well, I mean, it’s the climactic final chapter, the final battle. There’s just there’s so much excitement, there’s adventure. There’s Ewoks. There’s the realization of accidental incest. There’s there’s just so much to love about Return of the Jedi. If I were to pinpoint one thing for me, it would be to see the final form of Luke Skywalker. As you guys have previously mentioned, we you know that it’s the Luke we know and love becoming a true hero. Finally stepping into the the hero boots. And we see his evolution from boy to man completed and the powers of the Jedi Knight made manifest.
Jason Boyd 6:12
Yeah, yeah, it’s, uh, it’s speaking of the Jedi Knight made manifest, it feels like, this is kind of the first time you get to see the Star Wars movie that you hope to see in the first movie. where you’re like, where you’re like, oh, yeah, that’s what a Jedi can do. I thought he could be like a badass like, now he is a badass and then it’s over. You know, except for the prequels and stuff that won’t be mentioned. But still,
Corrine Asbell 6:40
As they get mentioned.
Jason Boyd 6:42
Yes, yes. Shush. We won’t mention them again.
Corrine Asbell 6:46
Dalton McCay 6:46
Yes. We’ll try. We’ll try our absolute best to not mention the prequels or sequels this time, I promise.
Jason Boyd 6:54
Well, they, they, you know, they exist in that space. And you know, if we are to believe George Lucas he kind of had this idea of where it had come from and where it was going. So you know, maybe he, yada yada yada anyway.
Corrine Asbell 7:10
If we believe George Lucas.
Jason Boyd 7:13
Yes, yes. Uh, so from for my take what makes it enjoyable is honestly it ends like it should end. To me. It’s honestly one of the best endings to a trilogy ever. It just it culminates and it just has such a perfect climax. It’s so satisfying. It’s like, it’s almost like it’s fan service, but yet it doesn’t feel fake or forced. It feels like earned
Dalton McCay 7:47
Jason Boyd 7:47
Everything’s just really, it’s an earned ending. And it’s exactly how you’d want it to end. And it’s just like, everybody gets what they want, basically, and it’s just, it’s great.
Corrine Asbell 7:57
Jason Boyd 7:59
And so It’s, it’s just leaves you satisfied and pleased. And honestly, I think if it ended any less well, the trilogy would be remembered a lot differently. So even though Return of the Jedi is not, you know, it’s got such a low rating on so many different levels compared to the other ones. I feel like it boosts the other ones up because it shows as a complete unit, those three movies.
Corrine Asbell 8:27
I definitely agree with that. Yeah. I mean, ignoring what the critics think about the movie. I think the fan base really does enjoy this movie and the entire trilogy a lot because it’s a complete set. I mean, if we’d left any, you know, questions unanswered, or nobody got their happy ending, I don’t think it would have been as enjoyable.
Dalton McCay 8:50
Yeah, it’s a it’s it’s a little like, comparing it to something – that the feeling to something today it would be like The Witcher. Like If The Witcher hadn’t had the narrative payoff that it did at the end, I think it would have been a lot worse series. I don’t think it would be as as touted by the fans.
Jason Boyd 9:18
Yeah. Yeah, not having done all The Witcher, video games and such. I can’t comment on that too much. But it does seem like it’s got its act together.
Dalton McCay 9:28
The, the timeline of The Witcher is such that even if you haven’t played the video games, you still know exactly what as much as you need to know going into it because it’s, the video games happen after all of the books, which is what the TV show was based on.
What Makes Star Wars: Return of the Jedi a Work of Art?
Jason Boyd 9:52
Oh, I see. Okay. Good. Yeah. Well, that’s, that’s a good one to watch after you watch Star Wars. Got some magic in it. But moving on to the next topic, let’s let’s explore what makes Star Wars Return of the Jedi a work of art. So I’ll go ahead and kick it off. This, the summation of the hero’s journey, honestly, it’s, and it goes in with the perfect ending is that it’s the perfect summation of the hero’s journey. And Luke becomes a fully grown adult. He seen his, you know, rock bottom in Empire Strikes Back. And he’s raised himself back up now. And then it even ends in a fiery funeral for Vader, his father, as Luke takes on the mantle of the head of the Skywalker family, I mean, it’s kind of like it’s a perfect metaphor for growing into adulthood. You know, it’s like he’s taking over for his dad by literally burying him but doing it in fire, which is a cleanser, you know cleanses the soul it’s a rebirth that’s you know, Phoenix and all that stuff so many metaphor s baked into that.
Jason Boyd 11:08
It’s It’s It’s just like a masterclass it makes the whole, it makes the whole series but just especially this end tier of how do you bring all the pieces together, structurally in a storyline? And to me that’s what makes it a real work of art. So, I am a structure nerd.
Corrine Asbell 11:30
That’s a good point you had about the fiery funeral? Because a lot of people had a problem with like, why is Anakin Skywalker get to be a force ghost? Because that’s generally only reserved for Jedi. You know, because as the Jedi is, there’s no death. There’s only the Force. So a lot of people like well, he he turned at the last minute, why does he get to be up there with Yoda and Obi-Wan but if you look at it, the fiery funeral kind of is a rebirth. It’s a cleansing of Darth Vader. It’s like literally the end of Darth Vader allowing Anakin Skywalker to be reborn again into the Force.
Jason Boyd 12:06
Right. It’s a dualism kind of approach. It’s separating the Darth Vader from the Anakin Skywalker.
Corrine Asbell 12:12
Yeah. I just it literally just dawned on me like, as many times I’ve seen, I’m like, Oh, that’s what it is.
Jason Boyd 12:20
Yeah. Yeah, it’s definitely because I mean, the idea is, if if they’re anything like Yoda, um, and I mean, within the same movie, even the original, we’re talking not the you know, redone version where Hayden Christensen is suddenly in the sky. You have you have the original fella who played you know, Darth Vader once he took off his mask.
Corrine Asbell 12:45
Jason Boyd 12:46
Yeah, Sebastian Shaw. And you have seen in that same movie, that Yoda vanishes when he dies. And you’ve seen Obi-Wan vanish. When he dies, so you know that if he’s a force ghost, he must have vanished. So why are they burning? The Vader suit? You know, like, they don’t have to burn a body because there shouldn’t be a body if he turned into a forest ghost. But that just kind of brings up again that what they’re really burning is the memory of Darth Vader.
Dalton McCay 13:24
Well, and then
Jason Boyd 13:26
Because Anakin has already passed on.
Dalton McCay 13:29
Well, and then there was that line by Obi-Wan near the beginning. He’s more machine than man now. So what they’re burning is the physical machine. The body is probably already left at that point.
Jason Boyd 13:42
Yeah, and strangely enough, it’s one of those things where even sci fi can’t get away from this. But you know, there’s this big, mythological approach to science where it wants to view it as a aberration or you know, distortion of organic life that you know, organic life is better than non-organic life. So it’s like oh the fact that he’s more machine than man is explaining that he’s also like somehow more evil even even though this is the like a futuristic society you know? Still it’s kind of like by getting rid of the machinery it’s bringing back his organic self. Yeah,
Dalton McCay 14:26
I like it
Jason Boyd 14:28
Very nice so let’s let’s see, Corrine, what do you think make Star Wars Return of the Jedi a work of art?
Corrine Asbell 14:34
To me it’s a story and then again, I’m a broken record. I feel like in every Star Wars I really only like the three things the stories, the effects and the characters. But-
Jason Boyd 14:46
What else you got? I mean, there’s nothing else about movie right? Characters, characters, scenery, which is the special effects and then story like that’s what a movie is. So I think you’re good. You just like the whole thing.
Corrine Asbell 14:59
Yeah, but I like how Return of the Jedi takes us back to the beginning. You know, it harkens back to New Hope with the second Death Star and the return to Tattoine. I mean, even Vader says the circle is now complete. And I think that’s what Return of the Jedi does for us. I mean, it’s not quite the same as Episode IV because the main characters have formed tighter bonds. Han is now fully devoted to the rebellion and to Leia, Luke is now wise in the ways of the Force not the wide-eyed farm boy on his first venture offworld. Leia has grown into her leadership role, but she’s also learning to allow others to shoulder those burdens. And it’s this emotional growth that keeps the story from feeling as if it’s just a rehash. Instead, it’s more like a natural ending. It goes back to what you said earlier about how it’s just a perfect ending to the trilogy. And overall, I think what makes it a work of art is the fact that it’s very rare to take a very similar plot device in the same franchise and make it feel like it’s brand new.
Jason Boyd 16:05
Yeah. And I want to ask you guys on the subject of Luke, do you get the sense in this movie that Luke is almost scary? Like, I get the sense that he was almost scary with how like powerful he is, how calm and quiet he is half the time. Like to me, he does step into a leadership role, but yet I can see him, it’s almost like he’s the wise magician, who has all the power like Merlin, but Leia is gonna be the one who’s actually leading people.
Corrine Asbell 16:39
Yeah, that’s what he is.
Jason Boyd 16:41
Corrine Asbell 16:42
That’s what the Jedi are.
Jason Boyd 16:44
Yes, Yes, that’s true. It’s true.
Corrine Asbell 16:45
What were you going to say, Dalton? I’m sorry.
Dalton McCay 16:49
All right. So um, yeah, I think it’s it’s kind of meant to be that way. I think it’s meant to be that way to drive home the fact that Luke is staring into an abyss. Like, almost like, like Batman. Right? So it’s very easy to cross the line and he’s, he’s treading it. As far as you know, the light side, the dark side of the Force are concerned. He treads that line. But he’s he’s scared to go over it.
Jason Boyd 17:27
You know, because he’s just, he’s just powerful enough to see how powerful the dark side is.
Dalton McCay 17:32
Jason Boyd 17:34
Yeah. And maybe before maybe before he didn’t even he was like, hey, I’ve still got a lot to learn with this light side business. Yeah, yeah, you’re right. Once you reach that mastery, you almost start going, you know, I really could be a criminal. You know, now that I’m a expert cop. I really know how this works.
Dalton McCay 17:52
Well, it’s the same thing with like, martial arts. When when people when people say oh well, you’re martial artists you must like, you know, like fighting like beating people up and stuff like that. And there are some people like that, that just enjoy violence. But that’s, that’s an extension of their personality and not really an extension of the art that they’ve learned. But, but when you have finally mastered movements, and realized what damage you could do to somebody, it makes you almost afraid of your own strength, your own knowledge. And so it gives you, it gives you a respect for that knowledge and anyone else that wields it.
Jason Boyd 18:43
Right. Yeah, so anyone out there who’s not aware from you know, social media or whatnot. Dalton is a fourth degree black belt in karate, so he know what he’s talking about. But he’s very, very good at the kicking butts So, Dalton let’s, what do you think makes Star Wars Return of the Jedi a work of art?
Dalton McCay 19:07
Okay, so this is gonna sound really weird. But I think the biggest triumph of this movie, the thing that makes it a work of art is the sheer amount of business acumen pouring from it. And like, Okay, I’m joking, but I’m also kind of not. Lucas pulled in another director, because he saw what that did to Empire. He’s like, oh, well, if I’m not directing it, someone else can shoulder this, you know, I’ll just I’ll just let him take my stuff and let him direct let this other person direct it. He kept all the merchandise rights to himself, and he played the absolute safest game he possibly could by reusing ideas and turning the Vietcong into adorable bears to decorate lunchboxes. Yeah, yeah, we just got out of Vietnam and he’s just like, oh, here’s these like tribal guerrilla warfare people, but they’re adorable. Let’s put them on lunchboxes and backpacks and, and plushies I mean if entrepreneurship could be an art, this is it.
Corrine Asbell 20:19
Jason Boyd 20:20
Yeah, you know you kind of got a point.
Corrine Asbell 20:24
I got a I got a fun fact for you, while we’re talking about the Ewoks. Did you know originally, Lucas wanted Wookies to be the ones on Endor instead of Ewoks, but because you know Chewbacca can fly a ship, they were considered considered too smart. So they had to come up with something dumber. And another fun fact about Ewoks, because you know, you can never have enough facts about Ewoks, they actually speak Kenyan.
Dalton McCay 20:54
Corrine Asbell 20:55
The Ewok language is based almost entirely off of Kenyan. When the film was shown in Kenya, a lot of the audiences were like, you know, obviously like, oh my god, I understand what they’re saying and just really, like, proud to see them represented like that.
Jason Boyd 21:11
Wow. So are they actually saying things?
Corrine Asbell 21:15
I’m not 100 percent sure because I don’t speak Kenyan. But from what I’ve read about it,
Jason Boyd 21:21
Come on, Corrine, you had time to prepare.
Corrine Asbell 21:24
From what I’ve researched it they are speaking Kenyan. I don’t know whether it’s like a word for dialect or just a ripoff of it. But yeah.
Jason Boyd 21:32
I can’t believe that you didn’t learn Kenyan before the show so that you could help us out.
Dalton McCay 21:36
Jason Boyd 21:38
Still, oh, well, we’re gonna just have to do an all Kenyan show. Okay.
Dalton McCay 21:44
If If anybody out there speaks Kenyan and can translate that those bits I would be great.
Corrine Asbell 21:50
I did look up how to say some words in Ewok, just for the show, but I forgot.
Jason Boyd 22:01
I’ll give you a partial credit for that.
Dalton McCay 22:04
A for effort.
Corrine Asbell 22:06
I was gonna tell you hello in Ewok but then I couldn’t like, figure out how to say it properly,
Jason Boyd 22:12
badly mangled Huttese which is supposed to be Koona t’chuta Solo? That’s my Jabba the Hutt language, Huttese. So let’s move on to what makes Star Wars Return the Jedi universally relatable? Dalton, you want to keep it on this one?
What Makes Star Wars: Return of the Jedi Relatable?
Dalton McCay 22:25
Sure. Um, I think this is the movie that officially started the era of 80s blockbusters, Return of the Jedi delivers set piece after set piece that remain memorable to this day. Jedi became a receptacle for all of the things that we’d grown to know and love about the universe. And I think that there was a lot of personal connections that we’d already had with all of the characters within it. And then it creates new personal connections with inter character dialogue, especially between Luke and Vader. It remains to this day, I think one of the strongest scenes of the franchise the the, that father and son talk between them.
Jason Boyd 23:20
Yeah. No, I agree. Yeah, this it really feels like these are people who know and love each other. In general, just everybody involved
Dalton McCay 23:33
Or who are who are trying to, like..
Jason Boyd 23:35
Dalton McCay 23:37
Like, Luke is, Luke is honestly trying to connect with what is left of his father. Um, you know, it’s like someone who’s grown up in maybe in an abusive home would view this, this scene a lot differently than someone who’s just watching it for the story.
Jason Boyd 24:01
Well and the thing is is that like he he’s he just got his hand cut off by this guy.
Dalton McCay 24:06
Jason Boyd 24:07
Like he just got his hand cut off by this guy and learned that he’s the father who abandoned him and all this stuff and he’s kind of like approaching him in a real like hey man let’s all let’s work it out we can be good together. It’s all good, it’s all good. Like he’s a real like he’s showing his maturity for sure.
Dalton McCay 24:26
Jason Boyd 24:29
So for my take on what makes Star Wars Return of the Jedi universally relatable I I’m probably going to catch a lot of flack for this but I think it’s the Ewoks I honestly think it’s the Ewoks. Now hear me out because this is this is it’s a nuanced approach.
Dalton McCay 24:47
Oh, man. I gotta hear this from the guy that that loves Yoda.
Jason Boyd 24:54
I love slapstick Yoda and the Ewoks. But I think the Ewoks are kind of stupid. They’re it’s it’s a silly concept, but they make the story seem relatable. Okay, so we’re at the end, the goal is insurmountable to destroy, you know, the entire Empire and actually do it. But then we’re like lost in a forest and some weird miniature bears have basically kidnapped us. And it just throws this huge wrench into the plans. And, you know, it’s basically like my life is what it feels like Ewoks are constantly coming in and saying, you know, oh, you had a plan, nah Ewoks are here. So it’s just always it’s frustrates. It’s a big detour. It’s a it’s almost like, okay, we’re ready to end and the fact that we’re now thrown off course, you could see as a big distraction that shouldn’t be there. But to me, it’s a chance to bring a spark of creativity, that something’s going to happen in a way that you did not see it coming. And it’s also going to seem real because it’s going to seem organic, instead of this planned strategized thing that goes perfectly according to plan, or even wrong, wrongly according to plan. Instead, it just is a completely different plan they have to make up. And it turns out helping them you know, in a weird way. And so I feel like that makes it a lot like real life. And I think it honestly just kind of makes the movie interesting. I mean, I, I know that’s not a popular opinion, but I think you had to have something there. Whether it was Ewoks or not, like Wookies would have been fine, but some kind of detour of, no, we’re going to kidnap you. We’re going to take you over here and there’s going to be this whole detour of the plot. I think that was a good move. And I personally, I kind of like the Ewoks because I think they’re cute. But I guess I’m a corporate shill.
Corrine Asbell 27:13
We all knew that.
Jason Boyd 27:14
Yes, well take my money Disney.
Unknown Speaker 27:19
Well, you also have a point, because if you think about it, if they hadn’t encountered Ewoks, they would have lost. It’s literally the the chaos agent that brought into their plan that set everything off course messed things up. And that’s what allowed them to succeed because of this unexpected Ewoks.
Jason Boyd 27:42
Right. And I mean, it’s kind of thematically it’s like, you know, you’re supposed to go with the flow as a Force user, right? It’s like, everything happens for a reason, sort of thing. So it’s like, you see this happening. You’re like, what’s this plan? Where’s this going? But it’s like, well, Just have faith and it’ll work out. You know?
Dalton McCay 28:01
Yeah. I think I think I’m just gonna start referring to every interruption or life problem that just pops up. I’m just gonna be like I you know, I just I ran into some Ewoks and I got I got I gotta get back to I gotta get back to you know equilibrium some point
Jason Boyd 28:20
Dalton McCay 28:22
No but i think i think you really touched on something here that’s not mentioned a lot and that’s the best laid plans are often thrown off for the the dumbest or smallest reasons
Corrine Asbell 28:36
No, I think you had it right with dumbest
Dalton McCay 28:40
It but it’s it’s the same thing again I’m gonna go back into a self defense kind of situations because this is what I know. So there I heard this story one time don’t know if it’s true or not but it illustrates the point perfectly. Robbers go into a convenience store. armed and armed and dangerous. They got the they got the ski masks on and everything. And a Chihuahua, the the owner’s Chihuahua jumps out from behind the counter or not really jumps, I guess it sort of clickety clacks out underneath it somehow. But it starts barking at them. And this freaks them out so much that they they did not anticipate that there would be this small dog barking at them, making noise that they ran out of the store, got into their car and drove away. It just completely disrupted their plans and so they had to improvise, and they weren’t really good at it. So what I’m saying is that criminals are stupid and lazy.
Corrine Asbell 29:56
Well, I mean, to be fair, Chihuahuas are kind of evil.
Dalton McCay 29:59
Jason Boyd 30:03
Yeah, I do want to say that he walks are kind of evil they –
Corrine Asbell 30:09
Jason Boyd 30:09
Like they seem cute but really like they’re a war like, creature you know? Like if they were ugly or we would just think they need to be exterminated.
Corrine Asbell 30:22
Jason Boyd 30:23
Dalton McCay 30:25
Have you guys seen if you guys seen The Great Ewok Adventure, I’m gonna bring it up later but
Corrine Asbell 30:32
Dalton McCay 30:33
So this was a this was a spin off that that came out of the Star Wars universe. It’s all about Ewoks and it’s one of my favorite childhood movies and I’ll talk about it later but just wanted to see if anybody had seen it, but it paints the Ewoks in an entirely new light.
Jason Boyd 30:51
Corrine Asbell 30:52
Well, that’ll be our next podcast, maybe.
Dalton McCay 30:54
Oh, maybe, maybe. That’d be nice.
Jason Boyd 30:58
So let’s let’s see what you think Corrine, what do you think Star Wars Return of the Jedi, what makes it universally relatable?
Corrine Asbell 31:05
I will answer that in just one second. But first, I just want to tell you I remembered how to say hello in Ewok.
Dalton McCay 31:12
Jason Boyd 31:13
Corrine Asbell 31:15
Dalton McCay 31:17
Jason Boyd 31:17
Okay, I’m glad. I’m glad you brought that up. Continue in Ewok.
Corrine Asbell 31:24
i researched. No. I mean, honestly, what makes Return of the Jedi the most relatable is you look at it like there’s, there’s a greater sense of importance that the mission to the forest moon of Endor has for the guys. And I think they’re starting to feel like they’re pushing their luck. They’re beginning to wonder when that streak of good luck is gonna end like, is this the point where we’re going to get caught? And a lot of us can relate to that. I mean, it looks like everything’s going good. So we keep pushing on pushing on knowing at some point, everything is going to go to hell in a handbasket. I mean, you can hear it in Han’s voice when he’s like, I don’t know, fly casual when they’re trying to get the gate clearance code. When Luke starts realizing that Vader is near and can sense him, that he’s endangering the mission. I mean, even when you just see Leia get knocked off her speeder and encounter the Ewoks. And, you know, all goes Ewok. But you know, like the true rebellion that they are, they never give up hope and they keep pushing on. And I think who can’t relate to that feeling like, wow, everything’s going so good. what’s what’s the next step? When’s it gonna fail when everything’s gonna start going to hell?
Jason Boyd 32:40
Yeah, but they, but they never give up their new hope.
Corrine Asbell 32:46
Go sit in a corner.
Jason Boyd 32:46
Dalton McCay 32:47
There you go. Bringing it back. Bringing it back. Let’s go. Let’s go.
Jason Boyd 32:50
Great. Great point, Corrine. Great point, though. Honestly, great point. Because this is it is kind of a goes back to what I was saying where it’s just like, can we really do this? And they start going I don’t think we can. You know, it’s it’s a nice reminder because you might have thought that they were doing so well, but it’s like when you really look at it, it’s like, ooh, you know, the empire is a big thing. So, let’s stick with you, Corrine.
Corrine Asbell 33:18
Jason Boyd 33:18
But let’s move on to what, what could Star Wars Return of the Jedi have done better?
What Could Star Wars: Return of the Jedi Have Done Better?
Corrine Asbell 33:26
See, I didn’t cop out like I did our last episode, I actually thought about it. You know, cuz it’s really hard to pick apart movies that I love so much. And I can discuss great things about it. But it’s really hard to discuss negatives. But for me, the greatest glaring problem with this movie was there was just too much disconnect between the battle on Tattoine and then the battle on the moon of Endor. I mean, we have these two really fantastic battles. The pacing is great. Great dialogue, but there’s nothing really to connect them. I mean, realistically the Tattoine rescue of Han doesn’t even have a lot to do with the eventual ending. I mean other than the fact that they had to get Han back, it’s not really necessary for the movie. But I just I really think there could could have benefited from something anything in the middle you know whether it’s Luke and Han and Leia getting back to the rebellion headquarters you know or a little bit more about the planning how they got the plans other than you know a lot of bothans died for this intel. But it you just go like one battle a little bit of scenes, another battle it just it’s it’s like a run on sentence with just a comma instead of no conjunction
Jason Boyd 34:54
Yeah, no, I you know, and what’s funny is in nowadays world, we would have a least had something really stupid, but we would have had something like, you know, cut to a couple of, you know, humans on the Imperial destroyer or whatever. And it’s just like, you know, Admiral, you know, there’s been an attack on the Hutt palace and Tattoine. It’s like, oh, any survivors, none, you know, or something like, there would have been some kind of reference midway through the movie to the beginning, it would have been really kind of cheesy, but honestly, that’s how they would have done it now to avoid that kind of disconnect. Of course, I’d rather something more but you know, still.
Corrine Asbell 35:41
Probably but it definitely wouldn’t have been Empire. I hate to you know, do the actually here.
Dalton McCay 35:48
Here it comes.
Corrine Asbell 35:50
Jason Boyd 35:50
Corrine Asbell 35:51
Tattoine is in the Outer Rim. It’s not one of the core planets. And so the reason why the Hutts are able to take over the Outer Rim is because the empire just kind of let’s them do what they do. They wouldn’t really be monitoring that. That’s why if you think about it, most of the rebel bases are in the outer rim.
Jason Boyd 36:08
Right, right. Right, right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right.
Corrine Asbell 36:11
Well, we might have cut to one of the other Hutts talking about Jabba got murdered, you know, that kind of stuff.
Jason Boyd 36:16
I don’t know. I just feel like it would have been like, you know, maybe a couple of thieves are like talking over some brews and are like, hey you hear what happened to the Hutt?
Dalton McCay 36:27
made up Huttese
Corrine Asbell 36:30
That’s it. y’all record that and send it to Lucas we can put it in the next reiteration of the movie.
Jason Boyd 36:38
Dalton McCay 36:40
You said something about touching on how people got the plans for the Death Star like we saw, Rogue One’s a thing, right.
Corrine Asbell 36:51
It’s a great thing.
Jason Boyd 36:52
Dalton McCay 36:52
But even that doesn’t it’s it’s like what happens after they get the plans right. How they, they’re not actually getting the plans in that one?
Corrine Asbell 37:04
Well, um, Rogue One got the plans for the first Death Star. The one that blew up in A New Hope that happened directly before A New Hope like the end of Rogue One, five seconds later or 10 minutes later or something like that. A New Hope begins.
Dalton McCay 37:20
Corrine Asbell 37:21
This one is the one that doesn’t have a lot of explanation. It’s just Mon Mothma’s like a lot of bothans died to get us these plans.
Dalton McCay 37:29
Okay. Okay. So I think ah, I think they should do a movie between episodes five and six. I think they should do the Dark Forces movie then. Because I think that Star Wars Dark Forces is where we get the second Death Star’s plans. I’m not I’m not 100 percent sure on that, but, man, that would be a great movie, and they could start its own trilogy. Like outside of the Skywalker saga if it wanted to and follow Kyle Katarn because I love everything about that. Like Star Wars Jedi Knight, Jedi Outcast, all that stuff. I know it’s like non canon now or whatever, because they threw it out, but it’s like just
Corrine Asbell 38:17
He could still come back
Dalton McCay 38:18
He could still come back.
Corrine Asbell 38:20
Yeah, I mean, I really can’t wait to see what they’re going to do with future Star Wars because, you know, they said Skywalkers are over. So great. Let’s explore all of this EU canon, or previous canon that we had and bring back some of these really great fleshed out characters that aren’t related to the Skywalkers.
Dalton McCay 38:40
I hope that uh, I hope that they give some, some consideration to Katarn and the others because that would be pretty amazing to see. The game, Jedi Outcast, recently came out on Switch as well. So you you guys can see what the heck I’m talking about if you go check that out. Go download.
Corrine Asbell 39:07
Go look on Amazon.
Jason Boyd 39:09
And what your there’s one guy with a Dash Rendar kind of like replaced Han Solo in the books for like an inbetween thing while Han Solo was on Carbonite that would be an interesting one to, to bring him into the fold.
Corrine Asbell 39:27
There’s no replacing Han Solo, Jason.
Jason Boyd 39:30
It’s just so you have a Han Solo esque character, you know, you have a rogue of some sort.
Corrine Asbell 39:35
No such thing.
Dalton McCay 39:37
I think that would be Kyle Katarn. Kyle Katarn is sort of like a Han Solo esque character, but he’s, he’s like worse. He’s like, he’s, he’s a little he’s a little more rough around the edges. But anyway, so we’re getting out of we’re getting out
Corrine Asbell 39:56
Real quick. I love Kyle Katarn and I must have a type
Jason Boyd 40:00
Yes, you do. Let’s see, Dalton, what do you think Star Wars Return of the Jedi could have done better?
Dalton McCay 40:07
I feel like even before they realized they were going to make the sequel trilogy, they could have shown and not told, of Leia being Luke’s twin. And I realized that this was put in like, way late in development, but that’s not really an excuse for how the entirety of that came to fruition. Like basically, basically it boils down to Luke sees the ghost of Obi-Wan, they have a conversation. Obi-Wan’s like, oh, yeah, there’s another one. Luke’s like, Oh, it’s my, it’s Leia. Leia is my sister. And he’s like, yep, you’re right. And then that was it. And then Luke, Luke, Luke goes up to her is like, yeah, you’re my sister. And she’s like, no way. And he’s like, yeah, way, search your feelings. And she’s like, oh, yeah, you’re right. I am. And it’s like, san we, can we not let’s it could have been such a punch in the gut like in a good way. If we could have seen something of Leia’s Force sensitivity even this early. Maybe when Leia says you have a power I could never have. Luke proves you’re wrong by saying by saying like, you know, he like holds his lightsaber up and says like, here, take it. And then she goes like take it and it’s like no, with like, reach out and then just like she wiggles it or something. Like she wiggles the saber and she’s just like, whaa?? . And then like that, that like confirms it in a showing way. Or perhaps during the the sands skiff scene with, you know, on Tattoine. Artoo shoots the lightsaber up, we all know that like Luke just grabs that out of the air, and it’s, it’s great. But what if Artoo had shot the lightsaber up and like Boba Fett had like, tried to intercept it, or something like he was jetpacking all the way there, he’s gonna grab it. And then Leia like, looks up and reaches her hand out and knocks it out of Boba Fett’s grasp just so Luke can grab it. And then there’s like this moment of connection, where, like, maybe Luke and Leia see each other, like for real for the first time, and then continue on with the rest of the scene as written. I just feel that there were actions that could have been taken. That would have made that revelation a lot better and set things up for the future. thoroughly.
Corrine Asbell 42:55
Yeah, I gotta agree with that I mean, they broke the number one rule of fiction writing: show don’t tell. So yeah, that’s a really great point.
Jason Boyd 43:06
Yeah. I agree. I just, I think they could have done more in general with what that means even. You know, like, why is it important that they’re brother and sister?
Dalton McCay 43:20
Jason Boyd 43:21
Like, what does that mean to us now? What are they going to do with that information? They’re already pretty close, you know, and it’s not like they’re gonna be closer just because they’re related by blood.
Corrine Asbell 43:33
I don’t think they could get closer than they already were.
Jason Boyd 43:37
But, you know, I don’t know. It’s kind of like, it’s just, it’s, it’s kinda just like a nice cherry on top. It’s kind of silly and just thrown in there to me. And it’s clear that they didn’t really think about it.
Dalton McCay 43:52
Jason Boyd 43:53
No, no, no, we don’t, we didn’t even know um, we didn’t. It confuses everything to the whole Organa situation and like how does she end up on that? And why? Why did Luke have to suffer in the desert? And she got to be raised as royalty? I mean, they don’t explore any of that, you know?
Corrine Asbell 44:16
And how does she remember her mother who died when she was literally hours old?
Jason Boyd 44:22
Yeah, well, yeah, there’s a lot of that kind of stuff in there. Yeah, well, for my take what I think Star Wars Return of the Jedi could have done better is honestly everything in the forest is just. It’s so confusing. And I have no sense of where they are at any point. And when they get on the speeders, and start zipping around, are they miles away from their starting point at the end, or are they just a block away? The scale and everything gets so lost and turned around and I just don’t feel tension because I feel like, you know, I guess they’ll get to the place and everything will be fine because this is obviously not playing by any rules of space and distance, you know?
Dalton McCay 45:11
Jason Boyd 45:12
It’s because, you know, it’s not like I have a, they’re trying to get to this point. And this is where they are and I can track it. And kind of like Well, no, now they’re further away. Now they’re closer now they’re further away. It’s just always like, yeah, no, there’s somewhere in the somewhere in the forest. So that’s, that’s something that I think could have been a little bit more… It just could have been a little more clear because it to me every bit of tension in the forest is just, well, you know, we’ll get there at the end. It’ll work out. It’s a movie.
Dalton McCay 45:48
Yeah. I think it’s the Hoth problem all over again. Like you had a you had a problem with Hoth for kind of the same reason.
Corrine Asbell 45:56
Is it because there’s no sand?
Dalton McCay 45:58
Yeah, cause there’s not sand, and really on Hoth there’s no, there’s no point of reference for anything.
Corrine Asbell 46:05
Yeah, there’s no scale. We don’t even know how big this moon is. It could be like a very small moon, it could be like the size of Texas and they’re just you know,
Jason Boyd 46:14
but yet they talk about on Tattoine they I mean, and also it’s a desert. So there’s not that much scale and sense of reference. But yet they talk about, oh, that’s over a day away. This is you get a sense of like it’s being desolate, and that you have to drive for a long time to get to the actual, you know, Mos Eisley and everything like that. So you have a sense of where is, where are things, how separated are they? It just helps you kind of feel grounded in the moment. I mean, it’s a minor thing, but to me, I just thought that, to me, it’s something that every time I watch that movie, every time we’re in the forest, I just throw my hands up and say I don’t know where we are in the world.
Dalton McCay 47:00
I don’t know where this is. I’m done.
Jason Boyd 47:02
It could be. It could be like right next to Palpatine’s like royal commode or something and never know it. Like I don’t know. Who knows what’s to the left or right off camera?
Dalton McCay 47:15
Oh god. Let’s just get this. That’s a scene I never want to see.
Jason Boyd 47:23
Gotta go to the, hey, Vader, watch. Watch my keys. Make sure no one takes him
Corrine Asbell 47:29
You know Palpatinejust sits on the same throne all day long. No matter what he’s doing.
Jason Boyd 47:33
Oh, yeah, there’s a hole in that throne.
Corrine Asbell 47:35
He’s got all those robes. You don’t know what he’s wearing underneath them.
Jason Boyd 47:38
Dalton McCay 47:40
Lord Vader, empty my chamber pot. Yes.
Jason Boyd 47:48
Yeah. I mean, it’s got all those ventilators and stuff he probably you know, can handle the smell.
Corrine Asbell 47:52
Turn off his sense of smell?
Jason Boyd 47:54
Dalton McCay 47:56
Turn off his sense of smell.
Jason Boyd 48:03
Yes, you, half robot turn off your smell or something and get over here alright.
Dalton McCay 48:13
Turn off your smell!
Jason Boyd 48:15
So now that we’ve reached the very bottom of Star Wars now…
Dalton McCay 48:18
We’re in the Mel Brooks territory now.
Jason Boyd 48:20
Corrine Asbell 48:20
We can go deeper.
Final Thoughts on Star Wars: Return of the Jedi?
Jason Boyd 48:25
Let’s, let’s try to sum it up with any final thoughts we have that are not gastrologically related to.. Final thoughts about Star Wars Return of the Jedi. So I’ll go ahead and keep it. I just want to say I think Jabba’s palace is a brilliant set up, just series of scenes.
Dalton McCay 48:49
Series of sand.
Jason Boyd 48:50
Series of sand. And it’s I’m not sure what it has to do with the rest of the movie, but it does put a nice end to Han’s former life It kind of wraps his story up by, okay, so now he can be like a prince and you know, Leia can be the princess and they can like get married and stuff because he’s not a bad guy anymore because he’s killed the person who he owed money to.
Dalton McCay 49:13
Yeah, there we go.
Jason Boyd 49:15
Yeah, nothing wrong with that. But like, you know, it does put a nice bow on that chapter of his life where it’s like, well, now the bounty hunter and everyone he owes money to and all these other toughs are dead. So they’re not going to bother him anymore. So he can move on. So yeah, there’s that I like that. But I think adding Jabba into A New Hope for ruins it a little bit because I don’t really need the foreshadowing of like, Jabba is going to come back. I like him just being like a faceless person until the end.
Dalton McCay 49:48
Yeah. I think in the original original, the part of quote, unquote Jabba was just some random large man with tattoos and stuff in like the, the Falcon pit. And it’s it’s so it was so jarring and weird. I don’t know. I’m kind of I wish that Jabba would just be gone in general like you said, but at the same time like if he’s gonna be there i’m i’m glad that he it’s CGI now. Like…
Corrine Asbell 50:23
You know they actually had to do like several different little tweaks on that scene, for you know throughout the releases when they added Jabba in from it was a big dude and for some reason I remember him just like looking like he stepped out of like a renaissance like court or something like that the way he’s dressed.
Dalton McCay 50:39
Yes, he did.
Corrine Asbell 50:40
And then he added Jabbain but because Han Solo was walking around, just a rotund man and not a giant space slug, he basically they had to edit it, they edited aJabba in but then on the next take they had edited in and make Han step on his tail. And then when you hear Jabba like eeee, because he had to edit Harrison Ford up a little bit. It’s stupid just put the dude back in.
Jason Boyd 51:06
Oh yes, I see a picture of this fella now. Yes, this will be in the show notes. I will definitely post this i like i like the he’s definitely like Friar Tuck or something
Dalton McCay 51:19
Jason Boyd 51:20
Yeah, he doesn’t look like he should be wearing that in the desert at all.
Corrine Asbell 51:24
They actually call him Jabba, too. And I think that’s why they added that in. I think it would have been a brilliant move to have Han like, never actually seen Jabba the Hutt and then like when he gets out of hibernation, like, who are you?
Dalton McCay 51:40
Corrine Asbell 51:42
Obviously, they hadn’t cast the role of Jabba for the final movie at that time.
Jason Boyd 51:49
Yeah, I just kind of like it being a scary guy that you don’t know seeing him out and about in the sunlight doesn’t make him very scary.
Corrine Asbell 51:58
Yeah, I mean, just take, um, just a better edit would have been just edit uh Harrison Ford and make sure he doesn’t say Jabba.
Jason Boyd 52:06
Corrine Asbell 52:07
You know, I’m sure Harrison could have come back in and said like, look dude or something.
Jason Boyd 52:12
I want some Java. Oh.
Corrine Asbell 52:15
Like a bad kung fu movie edit.
Jason Boyd 52:18
He’s just talking about coffee all the time. Well, that’s that’s my take. I just had to say, you know, I really think even though Jabba’s palace and everything doesn’t really fit anything else. It it’s just like my favorite part of the movie, honestly, just because the action is fantastic. And just everything works really well. It’s just a great sequence. But Corrine, what do you think would be your just to sum it all up? What are your final thoughts about Star Wars Return of the Jedi?
Corrine Asbell 52:50
Well, I mean, it’s hard to follow up to Empire Strikes Back which was a brilliant movie and is, like we’ve mentioned before considered the best is the original trilogy, if not the best Star Wars film of all time. But Return of the Jedi did a great job with a story and characters and wrapped up the story well, I think. It’s my second favorite movie in the trilogy, which, you know, there’s only three so should be obvious by now. Um, I mostly like the sequel movies you know #BenSoloDeservedBetter, but they were not at all necessary. I mean I enjoyed Rogue One, I’ve enjoyed Rebels and The Mandalorian expanding on the universe. I just really think we didn’t mean any more Skywalkers, I could have just done with the original trilogy. I don’t care how Anakin became Darth Vader. I don’t really care what happened too much after it. That’s what the expanded universe was for. I would have rather seen other stuff. I think in Empire Strikes Back was the best movie, Return of the Jedi followed it up, and ended everything beautifully. And that’s it. That’s should have been the final.
Jason Boyd 54:03
Yeah, I agree. And they could have done other movies about things in the universe and maybe a character peeks their head in here and there but yeah,
Corrine Asbell 54:12
Yeah like a callback, like a cameo type of thing, but doesn’t have to be about them.
Jason Boyd 54:16
Yeah, this could have been the Skywalker trilogy. And then it’s just Star Wars.
Dalton McCay 54:22
Yeah. I wholeheartedly agree. Like there, there was no reason for the sequels to even bring up any of them. Any of the rest of it. Ah, just so much wasted potential.
Corrine Asbell 54:42
I mean, I like the sequels. I do like the movies. I like Rey, I liked you know, Finn. I thought Poe was kind of useless, but I mean, I can enjoy them. I can still say they’re not needed, so. I know you don’t like them, so you definitely think they’re not needed.
Dalton McCay 55:00
Yeah I definitely think they’re not needed.
Jason Boyd 55:03
Yeah, I think there’s a lot of wasted potential there. Yeah could have been something just fell short. But, Dalton, want you bring us home What do you have to say as your final thoughts about Star Wars Return of the Jedi?
Dalton McCay 55:18
Well, I’m probably in the minority here like the vast minority, the slim minority I almost said vast minority it’s, it’s an oxymoron. But
Jason Boyd 55:30
I mean wide ranging numerous minority.
Dalton McCay 55:33
Yes. I’m in the slim minority here. But Return of the Jedi is my favorite Star Wars movie. Luke gets to be epic. And I have to say that when child me saw Luke do a backflip off that sand skiff board, grab a glowing emerald laser sword and then proceeded to dispatch alien baddies with reckless abandon that I was sold on the series forever. I found that Ewoks awesome because eventually I saw The Great Ewok Adventure. And like just having those in the same universe to me, like blew my mind. Like to this day, my mind is still blown because, like being able to have minor characters get their own spinoff and while it wasn’t great, it was still decent. Like it had a very it had a very Labyrinth feel to me, The Great Ewok Adventure did.
Jason Boyd 56:40
Dalton McCay 56:42
Let’s see. I’m gathering my thoughts. Yes. But uh after Return of the Jedi, like I officially became a Star Wars consumer. And it is the movie that ultimately I think kindled the imaginations of, of thousands and really brought home like the the mystical aspect of Star Wars that became, you know, the Jedi Order and, and and the Sith cult and all that stuff and and I had a really good, really good thing I was gonna say like, for just a second I lost it.
Jason Boyd 57:32
Well, we’ll just have to take your word for it. You know what, Dalton, we can add that to the show notes. And we can also just always direct everybody to your social media, which we’ll do in just a second. But yeah, I think that’s a really, really good points. Both y’all. Yeah. Is there anything else you guys want to add before we wrap up? Because this is the end of the Star Wars original trilogy.
Jason Boyd 58:02
No, I mean I I think we’ve pretty much talked about it enough.
Jason Boyd 58:07
Alright, going once
Dalton McCay 58:09
I remebered, I remembered what i was gonna say
Jason Boyd 58:11
Corrine Asbell 58:12
Alright, go, Dalton.
Dalton McCay 58:13
Because, because of Return of the Jedi, I think that it it awakened an aesthetic that I liked. I like to call laser swords and sandals. Like we have we have swords and sandals, or sand or I don’t know what the actual thing is. I think it’s
Jason Boyd 58:34
Swords and sandals.
Dalton McCay 58:35
Sword and sandals? Yeah. So we have laser swords and sandals now. And I think that Star Wars is at its best when it juxtaposes fantastical technology with mundane atmosphere. Which is why I really enjoyed Star Wars The Fallen Order game that just came out.
Corrine Asbell 58:59
Dalton McCay 58:59
Iit’s got so much of that, where you’re like exploring like, like Tomb Raider esque ruins, like, like ruined cities and stuff, but, but then it also has like robots and lasers in it. And I’m just like, ah, this is awesome. So I really think that Return of the Jedi is the best. Best at showing that juxtaposition. And ultimately, that’s why it’s my favorite.
Jason Boyd 59:27
Excellent, excellent. All right, well, you know, it’s been a it’s been a nice three episode here doing original trilogy. It’s always been a favorite of mine. So thank you, both of you. Now if I wanted to become your best friend, number one fan, where would I find you on the interwebs, Corrine.
Where Can I Follow the Fictionphile Crew?
Corrine Asbell 59:51
You can always find me on Facebook or Instagram at nonlineargirl. Or you can find me on Twitter at @n0nlineargirl.
Jason Boyd 1:00:02
Excellent. And, Dalton, where can we find you?
Jason Boyd 1:00:17
Good, good. And you can always of course find me on fictionphile.com. But then there’s also @theFictionphile is my personal Twitter, and then @fictionphilemag is the Fictionphile Twitter. You can also find me on Instagram under Sagehazzard if you like. But I pretty much just have pictures of my girlfriend right now. That’s about all I have. But you’re not allowed to look at those. But yes.
Corrine Asbell 1:00:46
Where Can I Find Star Wars: Return of the Jedi Streaming?
Jason Boyd 1:00:47
Thank you all. Thank you all very much. And let’s see Corrine if I want to watch this for the thousandth time, where can I find it streaming?
Corrine Asbell 1:00:56
Well, our Disney overlords now own Star Wars. So you can find Return of the Jedi as well as the rest of the Star Wars movies and TV shows on Disney+, as always, you can check out your favorite digital video store to buy a digital copy. Or why not buy it on Blu-ray or DVD and get a digital copy included for free. You can always head on over to fictionphile.com and click on the Amazon banner at the top of our website and buy directly from Amazon. It doesn’t cost you extra. It’ll just give us a little kickback so we can continue bringing you the content you’ve grown to love.
Jason Boyd 1:01:29
Very nice. All right. Well, thank you Dalton. Thank you, Corrine.
Dalton McCay 1:01:33
Jason Boyd 1:01:34
All right. Well, that’s it guys. That’s it for this installment of the Fictionphile podcast. I want to invite you to fictionphile.com for more scintillating analysis like you heard today. And don’t forget to rate us if you like today’s episode. And if you like this whole trilogy of episodes, and subscribe to make sure you don’t miss the next trilogy of episodes we’ll say, but until then. Until then, I want to thank you for spending a little story time with us today. And for Dalton McCay and Corrine Asbell. This is Jason Boyd and the Fictionphile family wishing you a happily ever after.